an enigmatic dream in several places and a shift in realities part 2

[j. oak 357silversword]

from a scientific facility with an unusual butterfly,to an outdoor environment with a mysterious woman who i did not know in waking state but who i did in the dream.the unusual part of it (for me,that is) is the dreamscape once again shifted and i found myself in a place similar to the one i had been before. but this involved 2 different factions who needed to ally themselves but were only just barely aware of the other's existence. i was observer to the doings of both these factions. but i was friendlier with one of the factions . i had to go into downtown to help decode a message received. in doing so, i passed by the house of one of the members of the other faction. some of them noticed me. one of them followed me, without seeming to. he was expert in Jeet kune do and Ninja stealth tactics . i had just gotten to the office of the town clerk at city hall, when he entered the building a few minutes after i did. he was just about to open communication,i was in the process of signing for the message and then would have taken it to our Crypto analyst for decoding when i realized he was outside in the hall., looking inside and waiting for an opportunity to open communication . i was wondering what form this communication would take when i woke up. and that is close to being one of the most enigmatic dreams i ever had. if anyone thinks they can help decipher its meaning , by all means try. i will be very interested in your opinion​

 

[PaulKH]

Ah, apologies for not seeing that you had completed this one, and 12+ days old might be too much to remember fine details. This is one of those types of dreams that brings up way more questions than answers. First of all, do you have a scientific background or interest? Was the facility tied to your training or hobbies in any way that might signify a personal connection? This would make a big difference on a "read".

Same goes for the butterfly when it appears (like a spirit of the very things the facility measures, the nature of the planet) -- was its appearance startling to you, did it strike you as oddly out of place or scary or any number of positive emotions/revelations? It seems like it would/should be a big event, and yet any assumption on our part would be more like projecting than analyzing (and projecting is a very self-centered activity, vs struggling to see/understand what someone else experiences). "Stood out" simply isn't enough information of how it entered the dream and how you felt about it. I do find it significant that you felt the effects of it, the wind stirred by it flying so near to you, *affecting* you. Just not enough info to do more than wonder about it.

Dreamscape changes are very common, whether the dream is simply bored of one topic and moving to another unrelated scenario, or whether it is like a visual "rephrasing" as it tries to find different imagery that would be meaningful to you, who knows without more info. 🤷‍♂️ Most of the clues will be hidden in how you initially felt about the transition (any resonance of "sameness"/similarity between the woman and the butterfly, for example?), and about the woman or the locations you were visiting. Did she act like a guide, or merely a companion? What did each of the locations you pass signify to you? How did *she* react to those (assuming you were keeping at least one eye on her)? Did the graveyard feel like yours or her destination, or like the factory or tavern, just another place to see?

Cardinal directions, when the dreamer is highly aware of them, can also be significant, but no clue if that could just be your sharp sense of direction injecting itself in the dream as if you trying to maintain your bearings. A mind used to always knowing where it is going can also try inserting this into a dream, but some would ascribe mystical properties to it; so who knows without further info. Was she searching for a tombstone or inscription or...? It's interesting that you chose (in the dream) not to ask but to test her togetherness, and note the casual-distractedness with which she answered you, as if to tell you just how unimportant that was compared to whatever was going through her mind/her task. Also significant, I think, but up to you to evaluate how that exchange made *you* feel.

Heh, next time you meet her, it might be good to *ask* her how she feels and what she is doing and *listen* (a skill too few people have, even in their dreams, yet is vital to absorbing truths from our complex environments).

It's also good to be highly aware of and communicate the *type* of dream transition to try and figure a purpose to them; again, it simply could be you mashing several dreams together unless you *felt* connections you can communicate (just because they happen within the same sleep cycle doesn't mean that *have* to be related, and hints you communicate are all we can work with). The first two segments are very solitary experiences (note the woman seemed to ignore you far more than be *with* you, so you seemed to be viewing her as an outsider/other, as you would that butterfly), and the second is quite the opposite, with large social implications (of subdivided teams and manufactured conflicts and you trying to navigate those). Did you feel you were taking sides (by choice or because you felt you had to)? Were these like gangs or businesses or...? (Any kind of impressions of the nature of these factions will help you figure out relevance.) What about the message? Any misgivings/foreboding/suspicions about it, and who could it have been from if not a 4th party (not you or either of these 2 factions you were aware of)? Did you feel like a negotiator or a facilitator or a lackey/pawn? This would make a world of difference, contextual meaning.

You seem to be highly aware of specific surface details (like exact building purposes: factory, tavern, city hall) without revealing the kinds of details/interconnections that would lend them meaning. After all, without interconnection, all data points are worthless. In my experience, dreams expect the exact same kind of mental discipline from you if you want to understand them better. It is those *deeper* hints that will provide options other than shrugging through some vague-mysterious feelings and begin to put meaning to them.

 

[j. oak 357silversword]

you are quite correct in saying that without specific details data points are usually meaningless. usually,but not always. int, the dream it was a bit more explicit although i did not post it this way.the factory had a neglected,run down appearance and it seemed as if it had been closed for a long time. the tavern ,on the other hand was very alive and teeming with activity. even 2 fellows who had been drinking in the tavern pointed us out and wondered what i was doing with her. evidently she was not unknown locally. as for how i felt, in the dream i knew why i was with her but in waking state i do not know. i am told this is not unusual in dreams. we had been in conversation(none of which i can now recall) some time when we went to the cemetery. i gathered she had a great loss, but i also she was focused on the past and future,not the present. and the way she answered me confirmed this. i do remember that the purpose,whatever it was it was very important, and i recall thinking "well, hopefully she will get over this because if she does not a lot will be affected by this" as for the butterfly my first feeling was one of surprise. in an underground facility is not the place where you usually find butterflies, especially not one as large as this. i cannot seem to recall any of the conversations with scientists. but i did feel a sense of urgency when i saw the butterfly flying in circles directly above my head. that was not random ,it was deliberate,and plainly meant to convey something. ITEM: i was reading a geological chart about certain rocks and minerals and their properties and their distribution throughout the continent. this detail is possibly significant. as for the 3RD scenario they were not gangs or businesses-although some members were engaged in business- the right word to describe them is factions. factions with different beliefs and goals who needed to co-ordinate their efforts but could not do so because only a few of them were informed about the other one . of those even fewer were well informed. the 1 member who decided to follow me being expert in martial arts could have an importance too. n a way this could be a microcosm of the situation through human history . 2 factions needing to unite against a (unperceived) common enemy. and there was an enemy ,even though it was not explicit in the dream i could sense their presence and some of their motives . they hoped to turn the whole situation to their advantage to bring about their agenda which would become obvious only when the time came. so in a sense ,yes, i did fell was taking sides. for something that was necessary for everyone. i hope i explained this clearly enough. i look forward to reading your reply​

 

[PaulKH]

To our "meaningless" point, I think perhaps the better way for us to view that is "isolated", something without context of how it fits into the whole of its surroundings. For example, a closeup photo of a bridge doesn't say nearly as much as a far enough view to see what the bridge is built over, where it leads to -- and those details will influence very much how we think about the bridge (is it over a chasm or in a garden or in the midst of ruins, etc.?). All these things matter, adding to the overall meaning of this bridge, seeing more of its purpose. In a way your surface details, even if you give more of them, do not create connections/points of relevance without knowing how it links or *bridges* various meanings in a dream (pardon the pun, but now I am humming Like a Bridge Over Troubled Waters). A great, all-vocal rendition by Peter Hollins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO30mNUHKFw&list=RDHO30mNUHKFw&start_radio=1

For your specifics, I see no clues how they can be related to each other -- certainly no leading correlations, and in an attempt to connect them, one would have to *inject* meaning that so far hasn't shown up. I'd guess your experience is most likely to be 3 differing dreams, mashed together: one of experimentation and calculation with either a warning or confirmation from the giant butterfly (I would say it is possibly related to purpose, but again, there aren't enough known links to do more than wild-guess, and I'm not disingenuous enough to pretend otherwise). The next dream is of a very specific journey with the woman; whether or not she represents your "better half" or a guide or something completely different (like you merely providing her with companionship on her own journey), there just aren't enough links to make sense of it. The last dream seemed to be about you taking sides, and feeling those consequences, being drawn into something much larger than yourself, but again, just not enough clues to point to.

You have to *want* to see these deep underpinnings and hunt for them/the larger picture for what you recall to gain any greater perspective. With enough practice seeking, looking for the connecting layers, they *will* show up, at least that has been my experience. Whether that is an internal or external process, I don't know, only that it takes your internal/mind environment being made ready for them by your seeking. When your crisp details also begin showing their meaning in how they fit together, then dreams become *truly* exciting to dwell upon and share. Cheers.

 

[j. oak 357silversword]

To our "meaningless" point, I think perhaps the better way for us to view that is "isolated", something without context of how it fits into the whole of its surroundings. For example, a closeup photo of a bridge doesn't say nearly as much as a far enough view to see what the bridge is built over, where it leads to -- and those details will influence very much how we think about the bridge (is it over a chasm or in a garden or in the midst of ruins, etc.?). All these things matter, adding to the overall meaning of this bridge, seeing more of its purpose. In a way your surface details, even if you give more of them, do not create connections/points of relevance without knowing how it links or *bridges* various meanings in a dream (pardon the pun, but now I am humming Like a Bridge Over Troubled Waters). A great, all-vocal rendition by Peter Hollins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO30mNUHKFw&list=RDHO30mNUHKFw&start_radio=1

For your specifics, I see no clues how they can be related to each other -- certainly no leading correlations, and in an attempt to connect them, one would have to *inject* meaning that so far hasn't shown up. I'd guess your experience is most likely to be 3 differing dreams, mashed together: one of experimentation and calculation with either a warning or confirmation from the giant butterfly (I would say it is possibly related to purpose, but again, there aren't enough known links to do more than wild-guess, and I'm not disingenuous enough to pretend otherwise). The next dream is of a very specific journey with the woman; whether or not she represents your "better half" or a guide or something completely different (like you merely providing her with companionship on her own journey), there just aren't enough links to make sense of it. The last dream seemed to be about you taking sides, and feeling those consequences, being drawn into something much larger than yourself, but again, just not enough clues to point to.

You have to *want* to see these deep underpinnings and hunt for them/the larger picture for what you recall to gain any greater perspective. With enough practice seeking, looking for the connecting layers, they *will* show up, at least that has been my experience. Whether that is an internal or external process, I don't know, only that it takes your internal/mind environment being made ready for them by your seeking. When your crisp details also begin showing their meaning in how they fit together, then dreams become *truly* exciting to dwell upon and share. Cheers.

you are right about it being something larger than myself , i did feel i was doing something necessary to save this place from whatever fate this hidden enemy had in store for it.whatever it was it was nothing good. of that i was certain. well, i think that you and i have analyzed and made it about as clear as a dream can be clear.unlike physical reality the dream world is very fluid and as you say, they are seemingly disconnected but that is often the reality in dreams. they may be deep feelings coming to the forefront in the dream or -and this may seem like a remote possibility but nonetheless a possibility- clairvoyant symbolism of some sort. guesswork is sometimes the best we can do when it comes to dream interpretation . i was not looking for answers necessarily but only analysis and opinions. as for details little things such as , the butterfly's wings were tomato red and tomatoes contain Lycopene. or the fact that the butterfly was flying in circles over my head as i was reading a geological chart about the distribution of certain rocks and minerals throughout the North American Continent is open to very many different interpretations. Lycopene has different qualities,one of them one of the world's most potent anti-oxidants. it also helps prevent atherosclerosis. it also increases bone density. as for the woman in the cemetery it knew it was my trip as well as hers and we had been in conversation but i cannot remember any of it now. i knew there was a purpose in mind but i do not recall what. all things considered this is a very good job of analysis when one considers it is a dream and dreams are often full of symbolism. i think i am much closer to understand it now than before. congratulations on your good evaluation and when i post a dream again , i will take your advice and post it all on one page .

 

[j. oak 357silversword]

Ah, apologies for not seeing that you had completed this one, and 12+ days old might be too much to remember fine details. This is one of those types of dreams that brings up way more questions than answers. First of all, do you have a scientific background or interest? Was the facility tied to your training or hobbies in any way that might signify a personal connection? This would make a big difference on a "read".

Same goes for the butterfly when it appears (like a spirit of the very things the facility measures, the nature of the planet) -- was its appearance startling to you, did it strike you as oddly out of place or scary or any number of positive emotions/revelations? It seems like it would/should be a big event, and yet any assumption on our part would be more like projecting than analyzing (and projecting is a very self-centered activity, vs struggling to see/understand what someone else experiences). "Stood out" simply isn't enough information of how it entered the dream and how you felt about it. I do find it significant that you felt the effects of it, the wind stirred by it flying so near to you, *affecting* you. Just not enough info to do more than wonder about it.

Dreamscape changes are very common, whether the dream is simply bored of one topic and moving to another unrelated scenario, or whether it is like a visual "rephrasing" as it tries to find different imagery that would be meaningful to you, who knows without more info. 🤷‍♂️ Most of the clues will be hidden in how you initially felt about the transition (any resonance of "sameness"/similarity between the woman and the butterfly, for example?), and about the woman or the locations you were visiting. Did she act like a guide, or merely a companion? What did each of the locations you pass signify to you? How did *she* react to those (assuming you were keeping at least one eye on her)? Did the graveyard feel like yours or her destination, or like the factory or tavern, just another place to see?

Cardinal directions, when the dreamer is highly aware of them, can also be significant, but no clue if that could just be your sharp sense of direction injecting itself in the dream as if you trying to maintain your bearings. A mind used to always knowing where it is going can also try inserting this into a dream, but some would ascribe mystical properties to it; so who knows without further info. Was she searching for a tombstone or inscription or...? It's interesting that you chose (in the dream) not to ask but to test her togetherness, and note the casual-distractedness with which she answered you, as if to tell you just how unimportant that was compared to whatever was going through her mind/her task. Also significant, I think, but up to you to evaluate how that exchange made *you* feel.

Heh, next time you meet her, it might be good to *ask* her how she feels and what she is doing and *listen* (a skill too few people have, even in their dreams, yet is vital to absorbing truths from our complex environments).

It's also good to be highly aware of and communicate the *type* of dream transition to try and figure a purpose to them; again, it simply could be you mashing several dreams together unless you *felt* connections you can communicate (just because they happen within the same sleep cycle doesn't mean that *have* to be related, and hints you communicate are all we can work with). The first two segments are very solitary experiences (note the woman seemed to ignore you far more than be *with* you, so you seemed to be viewing her as an outsider/other, as you would that butterfly), and the second is quite the opposite, with large social implications (of subdivided teams and manufactured conflicts and you trying to navigate those). Did you feel you were taking sides (by choice or because you felt you had to)? Were these like gangs or businesses or...? (Any kind of impressions of the nature of these factions will help you figure out relevance.) What about the message? Any misgivings/foreboding/suspicions about it, and who could it have been from if not a 4th party (not you or either of these 2 factions you were aware of)? Did you feel like a negotiator or a facilitator or a lackey/pawn? This would make a world of difference, contextual meaning.

You seem to be highly aware of specific surface details (like exact building purposes: factory, tavern, city hall) without revealing the kinds of details/interconnections that would lend them meaning. After all, without interconnection, all data points are worthless. In my experience, dreams expect the exact same kind of mental discipline from you if you want to understand them better. It is those *deeper* hints that will provide options other than shrugging through some vague-mysterious feelings and begin to put meaning to them.

the butterfly did strike me as unusual. not least because of its size. and its wing color-tomato red. i do not know of a butterfly exactly that color. but when it was flying in circles above my head then i did feel a sense of urgency and felt i had to get to the top . the butterfly followed me and then alighted directly above the stairs. that was ,of course extremely unusual behavior for a butterfly . it was not a random act .